EP 212 - Introducing Special Projects + New Resolve Anorak Product Deep Dive

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] Hey everybody, welcome back to the Live Ultralight Podcast powered by Outdoor Vitals. Today we have a special episode. This is a product deep dive on a brand new product. So this is when we, Brigham, our lead designer comes on and we just talk about the origin story, why we developed a piece and all of the details, the nitty gritty about a new project. Before we get into this new project, which is those of you that are watching on YouTube can see this is a massive puffy jacket here sitting before us, something that we've never done before.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00] We need to talk about a program called Special Projects because this is a limited run piece. We may never produce this again. It may be a piece that we launch once to test out some theories, some concepts, do something more on the extreme end, and then don't do again. And that's what the Special Projects is.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_00] So, Brigham, you've been working hard on this and it's finally coming into fruition here. So, let's just, yeah, let's dive in and specifically let's dive into the Special Projects and then we'll dive into how that turned into the Resolve Anorak jacket here. Anorak puffy.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, well, Special Projects, you know, there's, it's interesting how things come together at some point. Uh, not like a lot of times there's like little things that happen over time that there's no like direction or intention with that one thing.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01] But then as time progresses, one thing leads to another and then dots start to be connected or, or there become, starts to be like a relation in all these things. And so like Special Projects is kind of this combination of like a lot of things that we've talked about before.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01] We've mentioned a lot of times that we often try things and design things or prototype things, just concepts that we're kind of just interested to see what that would be like and to try. So that's kind of like an ongoing, that's kind of always how things have been.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00] Um, yeah, I've got a few pieces in my drawers that I see every once in a while. I'm like, oh man, I forgot we totally tried that kind of like random side tangent. We're sold, you know what I mean?

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01] Mm-hmm . And we have no plan to go anywhere with that, that piece, whatever that piece may be. Um, and, and in the case of Special Projects, I'd say with, with that kind of pretext, uh, you know, there did kind of start to be some things that were maybe, uh, requested of us or.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01] You know, there'd be a, somebody would ask us about doing this or that. Um, and that happens from time to time. And, and that's not always like most of the time that just ends with that conversation or whatever. And then sometimes in more recent, you know, history, past couple of years, you know, there's been conversations with, with friends, industry friends, contacts, um, people we know that kind of express.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01] Like a kind of a need or like something that they'd love to see, or that they find that they there's like maybe a special need or requirement in their, their kit. Um, and so that, that, that was kind of the case with what I would say, maybe like push the needle forward enough for us to say, like, let's make something tangible out of this.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01] All these, all these little dots were connecting because it gives us, uh, the, not the ability, the ability is always there, but it, it, it gives some like some ground, some foundation to, to truly, uh, explore. Concepts that have a path forward that could potentially have a path to, to go to the market in limited quantities or limited availability.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01] So essentially what special projects is, is, um, you know, a program where we can kind of take and go and run with some of these ideas with the intention that they, they meet, uh, a specialized request or need. They, they, they, they, it gives us the ability to offer products with like specialized capabilities that may be like really niche or narrow and in focus.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, and, and, and, and therefore like it, it applies to a smaller number of people. Um, but there was, there was, there's kind of an enough need recognized that we'd like to, to have something to offer for, you know, certain people in certain that do.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01] You know, activities in a very limited scope, uh, participate in things and, and get out there and do things where they aren't, where they have, you know, gear requirements that are just not satisfied. Uh, because they haven't been able to find that thing. And so, like I said, it kind of gives us an avenue to, to offer these limited or specialized capabilities to people, even though it's a very small, small user group.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I mean, it allows us to also push some of the forefronts of like technologies and abilities. So it allows us to prototype and just kind of work down avenues we normally wouldn't get to. Um, but you know, we're business, right? And so for us to make a product that could be sold to like a large majority of masses versus a product that can be sold to a small single digit percentage. Um, you know, we, we kind of have to make some of those decisions.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00] Everyone here in our office and in our company relies on that, you know, their careers, their families rely on us succeeding as a business. And so we have to make some of those decisions, but with special projects, like we absolutely have other needs, um, that, that fall in line. They're just not highly, you know, and, uh, I, the majority of people aren't like highly needing of those pieces.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01] It almost just doesn't even apply to, you know, even a lot of like our current customer base. Um, but within our current customer base, it's like there are those people that do, do whatever the thing is, you know, and it's a, it's a great, it's a great avenue for us to be able to, to offer really, you know, highly specialized pieces for, for those people.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And this particular piece is a cold weather piece. And while me and Brigham love to backpack in the winter and we take our team out every winter and do a backpacking trip and the snow and cross country ski and snowshoe. Um, and we talk about it all the time. The reality is from what we've seen, most of you listening, don't go backpacking in the winter and snowshoe in and stay or ski in and stay. Um, we'd love you to, I mean, we would love for you to do that, but there's just less of you that do it.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00] And that's kind of where some of like a piece like this might fall more in line. So, um, yeah, test new abilities, try something different, serve some of our audience and, and, um, some of our customer base that are have fairly, really unique, you know, needs and interests. Um, that's special projects.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00] Now this is our first piece in special projects and we believe this will be a collection or a, or a category that we will continue to operate over time. Anytime we, you know, are, are faced with a, with a piece that comes up like this, that this really works for this application. It might not work for everybody. We still want to test it out, prototype it, use it ourselves. And, and for those reasons, we have started this new division of special projects. So excited to see where this takes us.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00] The first piece in this line is going to be the resolve down Anorak. So what, why did we start this? Like, where did the origin come from? Like, Hey, this would be a piece worth prototyping. We'll just start prototyping, let alone building. Um, you know, what are the needs for someone to have a piece like this?

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I mean, kind of the, the, the, the first seed planted was like a friend in the industry named Ryan approached me about, uh, about, uh, a puffy. And, uh, at first I think I've misheard his, his question. Cause it was something like, when are you going to build like a 13 ounce down jacket?

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01] I think that's what I heard, but you know, in clarification, he was referring to a jacket that had 13 ounces of down. And, uh, you know, when he elaborated is like there, according, you know, his input, like his, you know, coming to me with the, the, the idea or the suggestion was like, it was kind of like an inquiry for, for us of like there, he wasn't finding that there was a good option that you could truly like take throughout the winter time.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and, and, and, and actually be warm, you know, for long periods of just sitting still or just stillness.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00] And, and, and for reference, maybe like hard jackets right now that have more down than most out there have like the Zulu has around five ounces and the, um, Vantage has like seven ounces. So 13 is like almost doubling the Vantage piece, which we released last year as our warmest piece ever. And for further reference, I'm pretty sure like a ghost whisperer Puffy has around two ounces between two and three ounces of down. So we're talking like 13 ounces of down.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00] That's something you just, it's not common. So, and when he's bringing us this, this question, it's like, wow, that's a lot of down.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it is. And then that's like, that's kind of the, the thing is, uh, you know, as it went, it was, it's, uh, it's, it's a lot of down and, you know, run a quick calculation having, you know, designed several jackets. You know, it's the, the net outcome is like, that is an incredibly warm jacket.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01] And in, you know, further conversation, you know, the, the need becomes actually very relatable and understandable, um, that, that there are people out there that, that do go out in the winter months, uh, in the, you know, Western U S Rocky mountains.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01] That like, it is really hard, um, to, to actually go and sit still and, and as a static insulation piece, truly be like comfortable to where you're not having to do other things to stay warm, like fidget, get up and walk around or, you know, things like start a fire. Um, and you know, in this case, you know, Ryan, Ryan's a hunter.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and so his application is, you know, hunting in the winter time where you're kind of sitting out waiting on wildlife for hours. But, um, this kind of comes back to, well, what else is this relatable to? You mentioned we backpack year round.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, well, days are very short in the winter time, you know, so there it's very, it's a very relatable, uh, scenario to, to, to, to ask ourself like, huh, this is, this is not just a credible thing for what he's asking for it, asking of it. Um, this is very credible for a lot of people, um, that are going out and it's dark at 5 PM.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00] Your camp is set. You're not hiking anymore after 5 PM.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01] Not everybody wants to be packing in a, a titanium wood burning stove. And, and that's understandable too. That's weight, uh, to have to carry. And, uh, it's, and, and the people listening to this, this is a good context to explain like the whole special projects thing is, is like, there are people listening that are like raising their hand. They're like, but I do that. You know what I mean? It's a few people. And, but that's kind of the whole premise of doing this is like, we want something for those people.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01] Cause when we're those people, we have friends that are coming and asking us about this. Um, and so, yeah, that's kind of the origin is like, oh, this is kind of crazy. Like it's kind of a, that is a, that could be a very warm puffy and it would have to be made a certain way. And, and, uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of where we started off.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah, it is. So then I don't know. I mean, from, from there we started to kind of look at, at, you know, he uses it. We already mentioned some of those and, um, there's a lot of application for winter backpacking. There's a lot of application for, for hunters. You know, we have friends like, you know, Justin Hick, Justin outdoors, you know, him, like he's up in, in Canada, you know, and he's solo backpacking a lot in the winter. And, um, no, he's sitting in his tent solo out there for a lot of hours. And I have not really seen him pack a stove in.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00] That's not something I see him do very often or at all. And, um, but yet he's, he's at camp for hours and hours, you know, in the dark or not, or photographers, you know, or, you know, there's different applications. And then there are some of those people. I'll give you an example of someone close to me, my brother. He, I, he always has one more layer on than me, no matter what we're doing. He just runs cold.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00] He's, he's skinnier built, you know, and, and then I am, and he just doesn't run as hot as me or even, you know. Females for that matter. And there's been times when I've used like a Vantage jacket and he used a prototype of this and was like, I wasn't too hot. You know, I loved it. He, he, he's more willing to pack in a few more layers because he just loves that aspect. And so, um, so we decided, yeah, let's, let's prototype. Let's give this a shot.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00] Um, we knew we had to design this differently and maybe the first place that we needed to start was with the baffles themselves. Right.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Uh, when that was kind of like immediately where the mind goes to in designing a, like a static insulation piece, a jacket. Um, and then simply just knowing that amount of down, that down has to have the ability to, to fully loft, to, to reach its insulation potential. Um, so it, it almost like is an immediate requirement that you have to make the jacket, uh, like you would a sleeping bag.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01] Um, cause essentially the jacket that, you know, the resolve is doing the same thing. A sleeping bag needs to do except when we're awake. Um, it literally is the exact same thing. So you have to construct this as you would a sleeping bag. And so, um, where we put the down, you know, these down chambers, um, has to be made, uh, very three dimensionally. And that's just like a sleeping bag.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01] So in, uh, in the down jacket, there's in this particular one, there's an outer fabric and an inner fabric. And then, uh, connecting those to the inner and the outer fabric is a, is a, a baffle mesh that kind of is like, like, and kind of like an I-beam, uh, in that it connects the two layers and allows them to separate as the down fills the space.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and allows, you know, there to be a consistent layer of insulation throughout without introducing pinch points and cold spots. Um, and so it just creates this, this huge space in the jacket between the two layers for the down to expand and loft up. Uh, and that's exactly how we make our sleeping bags. And, you know, it's absolutely, like absolutely necessary with the amount of down that's in this anorak.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01] Um, otherwise, um, you, you, you'd essentially kind of be wasting down. Like if you were to make this with sewn through baffles anywhere, you'd essentially be taking down out of the jacket. Like you're just compressing down all over the jacket and that down would then be serving no purpose. So, you know, we want all the down that's in the jacket to be able to loft up as much as possible and provide that insulation potential.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I kind of jokingly thought this early on is like, this has more in common with a sleeping bag than a jacket as far as the construction goes. Um, for those of you who are like watching what this means is like, you'll see that like, like the sleeve I'm holding up right now, it doesn't indent on any of these sewing baffles. It's just straight through, just like a sleeping bag would be. Whereas a traditional jacket, it has more of the curve and the indentation where the sewing lines come through.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00] Um, we're putting this much down in it. We don't want any indentation. We just want a consistent loft level through the entire piece. And it will look like for, for all intents of persons, it looks more like a sleeping bag style baffle because it is, it's a box baffle three dimensions, um, that allows it to fully loft. And that's, that's really important to note though, because while we could just shove a bunch of down in a traditional style sewn jacket, we would be compressing it, compromising it.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00] It's essentially wasted money, wasted weight, um, because that down can't fully loft. Um, so we had to change the baffle structure. That's, that's first and foremost. Um, what about this concept of an anorak? Some of you listening might not even know what an anorak is versus like a jacket. So explain what an anorak is maybe, and why we went that direction.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I mean, we chose the kind of the anorak platform, you know, an anorak is a, is a pullover jacket usually is, you know, has a zipper that goes about halfway down the front of the jacket and, and then you pull it over. Um, they're as, as a, as a base platform, that's very warm, uh, compared to like a full length center zipper because you know, that center zipper, um, in a lot of insulated jackets, you know, it, it's just a, a long cold spot.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01] Um, because there's no, there's no insulation behind it. Um, and the other advantage of an anorak is the ability to have a kangaroo pocket and a kangaroo pocket in this type of outer outer layer. Um, is, it's just a warmer way to make that the lower torso because, um, especially for keeping hands warm.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01] So if somebody needs to put their hands in this pocket, in the anorak, in the kangaroo pocket, like it's, we want that to, to provide the benefit that is, that they're looking for. There, there's a reason they're putting their hands in their pockets. Um, maybe they had to take their gloves off or something, uh, and the hands got really cold.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01] Um, the fastest way to warm up those hands is to put them in contact with each other, uh, close to the core of the body and be able to kind of massage your hands as, as they're within the pocket, which you can't do with a full length center zip. Your hands are now independent of each other, similar to like gloves versus mittens. Um, mittens are just warmer because you got in within the mitten, your skin on skin, your fingers are up against each other, um, helping to warm themselves up.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01] So being able to put both hands in a kangaroo pocket, kind of join them together and huddle close to your core, uh, is a huge advantage. Um, so that's kind of like the base reasoning behind the anorak platform.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01] Um, it also, you know, gives us the opportunity to make sure that our pocket is behind the insulation or, um, the insulation is between the environment and, uh, our hands. So if you put your hands in the pocket, um, your hands are close to your, to your body. And then there's a thick layer of down insulation between your hands and the outside environment.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01] So that's, you know, big advantages of the anorak itself.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, you definitely, in these cold temperatures, I mean, one of the first things that gets cold on you is your hands, right? So the ability to quickly and efficiently warm up those hands really helps. A center zip down the full front, not only introduces like a cold spot where your hand enters the pocket, but then where your fingers are extending towards the middle of the jacket. Well, that's another area where there's literally no insulation.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00] And so all in, whether you're, you're joining your hands in that pocket or the lack of the zipper, they're creating cold spots, creates a really warm environment to quickly warm up your hands in there. It also creates a massive pocket, um, which in the winter months, if you've got big bulky gloves, things like that, you've now got a great place to store those with ample space versus kind of filling up smaller jacket pockets. So lots of reasons.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00] Um, but really for the, the purpose of this jacket, which is like the warmest jacket we can make, you know, um, it, it had some big advantages to go with this anorak, you know, pullover style. Yeah.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01] And, and honestly, like one of the just base almost, we didn't really, we can really gloss over it a lot of times. And in this case, you know, we kind of did is just that like, we're still, we're still focused on back country experiences in the mountains. And generally, you know, we're not saying nobody that would use a motorized, you know, vehicle should, you know, this doesn't apply to them, but. And, you know, we're, we're backpackers, the people that wanted this, this jacket are, are backpackers.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01] And so there, there is an element that this, this has to be packable. Um, like we still want this to be a packable backpackable piece. Um, you know, so I, that just came to mind, like, yeah, I mean, we could, we could blow this thing up as big as we wanted. Um, for other, you know, that would, the priorities would shift and the balance would change, you know? Um, so it's, uh, but like when you mentioned kind of the warmest puffy is like, we want just incredibly warm puffy.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01] That is backpackable, that, that, uh, is packable enough that people are willing to take it. And yeah, we can get, get into more of that later.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. We'll cover like specs and some of that maybe a little bit later on weights and some of the materials, but sticking with maybe some of the feature sets themselves. Um, the other big thing that really stands out here is the front double zip, not a single zip. Um, so we, you know, we built this for, for different intentions, you know, for different people, I guess you can say in different ways. Right.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00] So some of the issues with having a piece, this puffy, this big is the on and off experience. You know, how do you get it on and not have it be incredibly hard, especially if you're putting it on, on top of any other layers or things like that. Um, how do you have a piece this warm, but still have some ability to regulate some temperatures? Um, there's gear access. There's a, there's a few points. And, um, so with those in mind, we developed this, this two zipper piece.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00] So walk us through this two zipper front and kind of the benefits and why we would do that.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I mean, I'll just elaborate on what you kind of listed there. Cause those are really the main points. I mean, it, it creates, uh, the ability to have really unrestricted access, uh, to, to additional items, whether that's, you're wearing a mid layer underneath that has a chest pocket, uh, or. You are search and rescue and you have a chest harness with radio equipment or other first aid equipment. Um, that's very common amongst, uh, rescue personnel is to carry these, these chest harnesses.

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01] Hunters are using binocular harnesses and, you know, the having access to binoculars, same thing with like wildlife viewing photographers. Um, you know, there's a wide application, uh, application and, you know, usability for a number of kind of different purposes that somebody might need that kind of access.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01] But at the same time, I would say just as important is the, the, the on and off, like putting it on, taking it off. Um, it creates a much larger space, um, to, to, to be able to maneuver the body, to put this thing on and take it off. It is a lot of down. This is a really puffy jacket. Um, and like earlier today, I was kind of demonstrating to some people, you know, to the team within the office.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01] Like if I were to just unzip one of these zippers, um, simulating as if it were a center, a single center zip and like pull it to separate it. Right. Like you can see a massive difference in the amount of space you're able to create between just unzipping one zipper and then unzipping both zippers to, to really open it up. It's, it's, it's really significant.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01] And, and I don't think this piece would be nearly as well, um, received, uh, it's just in our own testing, but, but, but people just using it. Uh, like I remember, uh, Justin, uh, he had an early prototype that, that he, he took on some winter trips. I think it was last winter up in Canada. Uh, and, you know, I kind of sent this up to him like with just like a very brief explanation of what it is and why.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01] And, you know, after speaking to him after a lot of his testing, like his feedback was just like, at first, this is just kind of like, this is weird. Why? Um, you know, and then after using it, it's like, I, I'm not sure I could ever go back, you know, or like it would just be, it would not work nearly as well with just a single half zip versus the large opening that it creates.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01] So, um, it's definitely different that, you know, you can't, you can't not notice it when you look at it.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So technically, I mean, I'm going to move some of this on camera here. You probably hear that in the podcast, but, and you can look this piece up, but this piece, um, when it is unzipped, it can tuck inside. So this, this big section that we just took out of the middle of jacket by zipping both of those down, easily tuck that inside. Now there's a few other benefits for some of these people that, that we designed this for, right? Like one and foremost, easy on and off. Number two, venting, right?

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00] Like you, if you want a little bit of venting action, a little bit of more mobility, something like that, opening that up gives you that. Um, we mentioned for the hunting side or photographer side, if you've got a chest mounted rig here, um, keeping the equipment at more of an ambient outside temperature versus like your body heat temperature can, can help with things like, like lenses fogging up, binoculars fogging up.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00] If you've got ballistic, you know, type, um, equipment, you know, you want it to be outside temperature versus the inside temperature for calculating ballistics. So there's benefits to that. And then the other side of it too, is if, well, maybe you do have electronics on your chest, such as search and rescue, you can zip it up from the bottom and you can reach in and access stuff behind there. So let's say you do have a walkie talkie and you want to keep it warmer because that keeps your battery functioning longer.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_00] Well, now you can keep that walkie talkie accessible, easy to grab, but warmer, closer to your body. Um, so that your electronics might work better in those senses. So there's just some, some of this, honestly, we didn't, I don't even know if we thought about all of these things before we started using it in the field and we're like, oh wow. Yeah, this is better for this reason. This works for this reason.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01] I think that, that it actually just testing it, not us, not just us, but, but other guys too, like this, especially the, you know, Ryan and the guys that wanted this piece for their reasons. Right. So once we got it in the field and tested it, that really, I would say almost gave us like the permission to, to accept this as a viable design. Cause it was a concept that we were just testing for to accomplish a couple things.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, but once we saw how usable and practical it was in that, you know, makes the on and off so much easier, it actually introduces really interesting and, and, uh, versatile venting options, um, and access options. Uh, it really, I'd say volt, you know, added a lot of validity to that, that design.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01] And, uh, yeah, because there's, yeah, there's so many ways you can kind of just adjust this to, to kind of suit your needs.

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. So with this, we also used a different zipper than we typically use in jackets rather than using a number three with just some like little paracord type ties on it, you know, cord ties. We found that those were hard to use in the winter months. And so Brigham, you, you found these went with these, these are a locking tab, hard plastic, so that with a mitten on heavier duty glove, you can still find these zippers, pull these zippers, manure these zippers, and they do lock into place.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00] Um, so that can't accidentally slide open up. Um, and we use those zippers on both of the up and the down, um, chest section of the anorak, as well as the zippered hand pockets. So those were very much design intended glove use lockable, um, super helpful. You'll also see here, like, just like with a sleeping bag, we have a baffled backing behind the zipper and an anti snag, you know, fabric here.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00] So that when you're running that zipper, it runs more clean, more smoothly. Doesn't, um, you know, snag on the fabric. And I mean, like I say, this has so much DNA that a sleeping bag has it. It does have that as well to help insulate where those zippers are. Um,

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01] A lot of the, just like little, uh, little design choices throughout. They're all, it's just really helpful to, to look at them in the context of the overall use case for this piece. It's, it needs to be cold and very cold to, to need this piece, which means if you, now you're in that context of, okay, if I'm using this, the conditions are really cold.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01] I'm likely wearing gloves or likely have like maybe marginalized dexterity because just things we have to do sometimes, uh, whatever it is. Maybe you have to take your gloves off for a couple of minutes to manipulate your stove or something. Well, um, everything is really centered around being this piece being usable and appropriate in these very cold conditions. That's, you know, like the, the rigid having leverage by putting rigid, uh, zipper pulls on there.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01] It just made it so much easier to actually function the zipper, um, you know, slide it up and down. Um, the choice to use a number five zipper, um, is, is very intentional in these conditions. Uh, a zipper failure is not something we want to risk. Um, so having a more robust zipper system, um, and it actually like the Y, the number five YKK zipper is their strongest zipper by weight across their entire life.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01] So, uh, uh, you know, using a number five is, is very intentional. Um, you know, making sure the, the zipper, the anorak or the, the kangaroo pocket openings, uh, the zippered openings are big enough to use with gloves on. Um, you know, those are some tweaks that we made. So, uh, yeah.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Um, before I move on from kind of zippers and we've talked about the pocket, um, we'll move to the, to some of the cinching and things on this. But, um, inside of the kangaroo pocket, there is also a drop pocket. Um, that's just helpful so that if you were going to put gloves in there, I mean, there's lots of reasons, but this is how I would use it is inside of there. I can drop gloves into that drop pocket.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00] And then when I'm pulling my hands in and out of that jacket, I'm not going to accidentally unload, uh, uh, glove out of the, out of my pocket without realizing it. Or, you know, I just really secure some things inside of that pocket as well that you may want in there for, for maybe a longer period of time or something.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01] So even like, even, even, uh, I don't know what the word would be, but for batteries, whether that's battery banks, camera batteries, um, you know. Water filter. I mean, great place to put your stuff, um, because you can zip the pockets closed. And if you put them in that drop pocket, then it's just a good place to store those things that you don't want the cold to deteriorate.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Okay. So walk me through kind of like the, the cinches, you know, the, how you would, you know, hood, hem, things like that.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01] So the hood opening has, has cinch cord just right around the perimeter of the, the, the opening. Um, just so, you know, we can really kind of cinch it up around the face. Um, and the hood is, is box baffle constructed as well. So we, we didn't change any of that. So, um, this hood is, it's like a shutoff valve. You put it on your head and your head is warm.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00] You feel like you just put on your football helmet from high school when you put that hood on.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01] So you're wanting to seal off that face opening. Um, that's the cinch cords there. Uh, other cinch cords are down on the hem. There's one on each side. So it's a double cinch cord system. Um, you pull whichever one, pull both of them. Uh, and that works. And again, that is to close off the bottom.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and then I just say, while we're kind of in that area of the, of the jacket, the piece is deliberately designed to be longer than like our standard jacket. So the default regular size is, you know, it's a couple inches longer than like our other jackets, say the Vantage Alpine jacket. Like it's about two inches longer. Um, and that's again, just for more coverage. Um, especially in the lower back and the buttocks area.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01] It's like, we just want, we just want to kind of keep that, keep the bottom closed off. And so, and it, it also helps, you know, oftentimes like if you're sitting around camp for hours in January and at night, you know, or somebody's, uh, doing. You know, nighttime photography, sunset, sunrise photography, hunting there, you know, they're, they're glassing, you know, looking for animals in like first light when it's incredibly cold.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, we don't want the, the, the jacket to ride up, um, especially in the back and introduce some drafts. Um, and then I guess, you know, while we're in that area still, we added a couple little clips inside the jacket that are at about kind of waistband level, uh, belt level of a pair of pants. So you can, you can clip those two little clips and they're on an elastic little strip of webbing.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01] Um, so that there's some give, it's not like a hard piece of webbing so that you can just have an extra measure of security that, that the, the jacket's going to stay put when you're sitting down and moving around as you, you know, less likely to have drafts.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I, I really like that aspect. Um, because, you know, jackets, especially like me, I'm, I'm taller, right? And so it's not uncommon for jacket to ride up as I'm bending, moving, shifting at all, even just sitting like cross-legged on the ground. So having those little elastic clips back there to hold the jacket down, um, it, it makes, it makes a difference. We played with kind of the positioning of those. So we actually recessed those up the jacket of a handful of inches.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00] So they're not right at the hem. They're actually up and in there. They don't hang out of the bottom of the jacket. You can't see them unless you use them. Um, but that, that creates an actual overlap between the top of your pant or whatever you're wearing on your bottoms and where these, where this piece would come down and pass that. And it holds it in that position. Um, and just gives you an extra little measure again, something that probably is something you might never see on a mainstream piece, but for this, it, it, it matters.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_00] It's kind of like the concept of a draft with a top quilt, you know, and pad straps. Like we want to hold that, that top quilt as much in place as we can to eliminate or remove all drafts. Um, cause a draft is just a cold spout of air coming up there. Sometimes you don't feel it until you've actually cooled off more than you'd want to. And so it just holds it right in that, in that position that you need this thing to be. Just kind of guides it. I guess you could say to stay in position. Um, which is a, it's a cool concept. It's something we haven't seen, we haven't done.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_00] Um, but, um, I think out in the field and in these conditions, it's going to stand out for people. So, um, okay. Anything else before we kind of cut over to materials?

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01] Uh, I guess the only, the only other feature we didn't talk about is, um, inside the, uh, the left and right kind of collar area. Um, we put these little hanging loops, uh, and, and I'd say the primary thought process there is that's for gloves, you know, to be able to hang, hang gloves here. Um, a lot, most, most gloves will have like those little plastic mitten clip things.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and so it gives you the ability to, to clip your, your gloves or mitts there. Um, again, just kind of, we want to like set the person up for success in there. Uh, there is like a notorious, um, meme or clip that I see on Instagram from time to time. And it's on Everest and, um, it's of a guy losing his mitt and he just, it just shows the mitt tumbling, tumbling down. And it's kind of just being game over for that person.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and that's like, that's, that's real. Um, and I'm not saying like, this is built for Everest. I'm just saying like in really cold conditions that this is built for, we want those little extra capabilities, uh, to just have some extra security. And cause it's a safety thing, you know, uh, frostbite is real and we don't want people losing their gloves, but it also can be useful for, um, you know, glove liners that may, may get damp.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01] And the ability to just clip those on there while you're sitting, sitting around and, and kind of dry them off a little bit with your body heat. Um, so that's, I think that's the only other feature here to call out. Hadn't called out.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. So with this piece, we've got to pick, you know, what down are we using? Why, how much down and, and fabrics to wrap it in. Right. So, um, let's, let's start with the down. You kind of already alluded to the amount of down being about 13 ounces.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00] So to compare that, I kind of compared it to other jackets, but one other thing that's interesting to compare that to is 13 ounces of down is about how much down we use in a 30 degree top quilt. So we stuffed a ton of down in this. All right. So what down are, did we decide to put into this jacket and why?

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01] So this is made with an 850 fill expo dry down. So, so we've used expo dry, like in our top quilts, um, and it's, it's outstanding. We just wanted to increase the fill power, um, to something higher, kind of going back to the, the packability and, you know, still wanting this to be a backpackable piece.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01] So when we're, when we know we're going to be putting a ton of down in this thing, we want to raise the fill power and make it more packable and allow us to, you know, uh, use a little bit less down for that level of warmth. So this fill power goes up, you can use less down to, to fill up the same amount of space.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_00] And with the expo dry, that is, that's what we've been using in top quilts and other pieces for a while. Now we've got a ton of testing with it and it performs extremely well for, for what it is, right? It's a, it's a permanent treatment and it's what it is, is it's, you're impregnating gold nanomolecules onto this down. It doesn't wash off, doesn't change. And really what it does is it helps kind of excite water molecules and helps them evaporate and dry quicker.

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00] And we've seen tremendous success with that, um, in terms of just day after day, repeat use, you know, sweat, moisture. If you're hanging, you know, if you're drying pieces out inside of this down, you know, just your body heat alone, really, um, working with the expo dry helps to keep this down extremely dry. And dry down is lofted down. Dry down is maximized warmth. You know, you're getting the most loft out of it.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00] So that expo dry, um, will work extremely well in this to keep that down dry. And again, it is a permanent treatment. So at an 850 fill, it's true with expo dry. And we wrap this in a 15 D nylon ripstop, right? So, um, so light material, obviously there are lighter materials out there. There are heavier materials out there. Um, for this piece, 15 D is, is right in that sweet spot.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00] We feel like where you're getting durability, but it's still extremely light, extremely packable. Um, the other thing to, to just note with something like this is, um, in order for us to keep kind of the weight where it's at, packability where it's at. If you put too heavy of a fabric on the outside too, if you went too extensive with that, like, let's just say you're, I don't know, let's say you're a fisherman in Alaska and you're working on a, on a boat. You know, and you're like, man, I really want something like really heavy on the outside.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00] Well, that's, that, that just changes fundamentally changes kind of the scope of the project here for us where it compresses the down and takes away warmth and it removes packability. So, um, this 15 D gives us that, that really good balance of, of, of being super light, still having a lot of durability in it. You know, like from, you know, we've, I've never experienced ever like snagging the fabric and puncturing a hole in it. Whereas with some of the lighter denier nylons and other materials I have.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00] And so it gives you a really good ability to just have a, a good all around choice in the fabric itself. Thank you. Um, okay. So probably the question people are most wanting to know at this point is what does this thing weigh? I mean, if you're looking at it on the table here, I mean, this thing is sitting like six inches up off the table. It is extremely puffy, um, and extremely warm. So let's talk about, um, what does this weigh, kind of what does this pack down to?

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_00] And then we can get into some more like use cases in the field, how it compares to other pieces. When do you use it?

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well, uh, a large is 24 ounces. Um, and that is, it's a really interesting thing. Uh, it, for me, it at least like induces a lot of like thought in when I'm relating it to other things. And I brought this up earlier today in a meeting with the rest of the team that 24 ounces, uh, you know, those 24 ounces, more than half of it is down.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and it is such an incredibly warm piece. And, and a way to kind of con contextualize this is, uh, like our vantage down jacket is about 15 and maybe 15 and a half ounces for a large, uh, just so it's same size, same size. So 15 ounces and a Ventus in the largest seven and a half ounces.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_01] So essentially the exact same weight minus 0.5 ounces, but the combination of a vantage jacket, um, and let's just say a jacket that's got about seven ounces of, of down, right? The vantage is 850 fill as well. Um, and they combine that with another insulated layer of the Ventus, which is a synthetic sheeted insulation. Um, that's the same weight as this.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_01] And this is easily twice as warm as that setup. So for the same weight, um, it's, it's, it's a pretty interesting thing to kind of like go a little deeper on when we're talking how warm this is.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I mean, even if you took like two vantage jackets and layered them onto each other, it wouldn't be as, well, I don't think it would be as warm as this piece. And you would be now two full pounds versus a pound and a half. So like the weight to warmth ratio, it is really incredible, especially when you're talking about layers and layers, which is what most people are using when they're going out into these conditions is they are just stacking so many layers on top of each other.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_00] But in this case, having enough down to be able to go into the box baffle construction and make that worthwhile, just really maximizes the value you can get out of the down. And so for, for 24 ounces in a size large, right? And, and usually, you know, most brands are citing like a size medium or something like that. So whatever you want to compare this to 24 ounces or even less, um, extremely warm and extremely, um, just, just useful in that sense.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00] Now, in terms of packability, it also is, is quite packable. Now there's a few different ways you can pack this. You can loose pack this in your backpack. Um, so you kind of mentioned earlier today, how you like to pack it is just to shove it on top of everything. It's obviously going to fill spaces and voids in your backpack because it's down and it's moldable. Um, and it's, then it's really easy to grab when you stop, right? You stop, you can pull it out really quickly and put it on.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00] Um, but you just as easy could throw this in a dry bag, a compression bag and compress this thing down. And you're going to get a ton of compression, compression out of that because it's primarily down and really lightweight fabric. And so, um, if you choose to compress it down, I mean, I would think you're going to compress this down to the same size as like our 30 degree top quilt. Um, you know, if you can picture how tight that is, that's probably, you know, if you're really tightening that down, probably the size of like a cantaloupe per se.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_00] Um, or you can loose pack it in your, in your bag and just have it fill up space, fill up voids and, and be accessible. But either way, ton of compression and packability out of a piece this big and warm, which is, you know, I mean, you really just have to think of more of it like a sleeping bag. You look at how big and bulky a sleeping bag is when it's open and you're in it and stuff like that. Then you look at how much it can compress down when you're using an eight 50, you know, 900 fill power type down, they can compress down so small.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00] And, and that's, that's the best relatable point I can give for how this would pack down in the bag. Um, so, so let's, I guess let's talk about like kind of in the field, like you alluded to just how warm this piece is. Um, you know, we've been testing it for a while now. Um, you know, one use case scenario that we had it in was we were up in Montana. We were camping and staying at about 10,000 feet.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_00] The wind never shuts off up there. It seemed like we were getting just crazy amounts of wind, um, winds ranging from, you know, 20, 30 miles an hour on the low end up to 50. And even one day and when one location, we were hitting like 70 mile an hour gusts. It was the most wind I've ever experienced in my life.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_00] And, um, because of box baffle construction down and all those things, this thing's ability to just stop wind in its tracks is on a completely different level. Now we do with our other pieces, we have a, you know, the, the zero stitch fabric, and that does an incredible job at stopping wind for what those pieces are. This takes it to a whole nother level. Um, because there's even down split across all of it.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00] There's an even outside fabric across all of it. Um, and so in those conditions, you know, yes, winds probably blowing through it to some extent, but it feels like it's virtually zero, especially compared to any other part of your body. You know, legs, hands, it feels like anything inside of this jacket was experiencing almost no wind being able to push through the jacket.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_00] So from a warmth perspective and a wind scenario, um, it's, it's just incredible. Incredible.

[00:48:16] Yeah.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, I'm just looking back and it's a little bit funny because I mean, there were times when you just don't want to take it off. You know what I mean? And then we like, there were times when we were just, just move a little bit. It just didn't want to take it off because the wind was just so brutal. Uh, and you know, so we're like putting our backpacks on over this thing. It's just ridiculous.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_00] But, but we're only walking a few hundred feet, you know, or something.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_01] Um, but, uh, it is, I mean, it's just kind of, it just shuts it off. It's, it's pretty, it's pretty impressive.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I mean, when I was in those, those bigger gusts, I mean, I was, I wish that I could have been a fly on the wall to see me trying to walk. I couldn't really like stand up without getting blown feet at a time. One time a gust hit me so hard that it kind of threw me like, like four or five feet. And I kind of like stumbled and jumped and then I like turned to see what hit me. Cause it literally felt like something rammed into me.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_00] I mean, it was, it was, but again, it just, this piece is on an, and completely different level than any other piece we have ever produced here at OV. Um, so, so it's kind of like the wind blocking ability. And then in terms of like, we get this question constantly and there's no right answer to this. And maybe we can just quickly touch on that, but they'll say like, well, what temperature do you use this jacket in? What is it rated for?

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_00] You know, cause everyone's really programmed for like a sleeping bag to have a temperature rating. Jackets don't have that. They don't have some, you know, like rating system because there's so many factors. There's, you know, what is the actual temperature? What is the wind doing? Are you in sunlight? Are you in shade? Are you in a cloudy scenario? Are you in a tent? You know, that factors in immensely. And then the biggest one is activity level. Are you sitting stagnant for five minutes?

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_00] For an hour? Five hours? Are you walking? You know, are you doing hybrid or mix? All of those have just massive effects on getting some kind of a rating system for a jacket. So we can't really rate the jacket, but maybe we can give you a few touch points to help you understand how we've used the jacket and where it works.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_01] So, yeah, it's, and of course there's, there's going to be some subjectivity to this person to person. Um, but for me, like my general recommendation or for me, like how I, my thought process for this is, um, there's a, for me, there's an easy, like the easiest threshold would be like 40 degrees.

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_01] If there's, I mean, it has to be persistently blown, like more than 50 miles an hour to, and to want to wear this in temperatures above, you know, much above 40 degrees. But generally those conditions are like incredibly rare. And this is for rare conditions already. But like generally we can really easily start with like 40 degrees and below.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_01] I think anybody that, you know, could start at that point, you, you start throwing yourself in to be included for this. Um, but for me, where it really comes in is like kind of the, the 32 degrees, the freezing mark of, you know, if there's, you know, if there's no wind, then. That could be a little bit below, but generally there's always wind.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_01] Um, so even if it's just gusting every once in a while, like 32 degrees, but if like, if there's no wind, you know, maybe that's the upper twenties. But the reality is just like, I think for most people, um, learning about this, this jacket and how it's made and how much down it has in it.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_01] I think somebody that needs this jacket will know it as soon as they read about it, see it and listen to this, like, cause they will have experienced sitting in cold weather with whatever jacket they've used in the past and being consciously aware that they are shivering. They're getting up, they're walking around, they're fidgeting, they're doing things and they are not able to just sit comfortably for long periods of time.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_01] Um, I think like those people, that's who this is for, will, will, they will know what that condition is because they have experienced it. Um, now it's great if this appeals to somebody that's always been wanting to get into winter backpacking and you're like, okay, now there's an answer. And so these little, I think the recommendations are helpful, but like you mentioned, how long you're going to be sitting still, what the ambient temperature is, what the wind level is and the sun exposure is.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01] Um, uh, you know, sitting still in still, uh, with no wind on a clear day with their, when there's sun, like can actually be quite comfortable, even like in sub freezing temperatures. You know what I mean? Like the sun is an incredible heat source. Um, so I don't know, that that's kind of where I look at it is, you know, if it's going to be, if it's going to be windy at all, you know.

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_01] 40 degrees is, is my threshold for, you know, if I'm under.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_00] On the upper end you're saying.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Like if it's 40 degrees and lower and it's consistently windy, this is, this just shuts it off. This is just like putting this on and there is nothing to even worry about.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I think of sitting in camp, you know, when we're getting down into even like, like let's say around 20 degrees, maybe high teens. Like if you're sitting in a tent, you know, stagnant for hours, you know, maybe you're just whatever. Maybe you're sitting there cooking some food. Maybe you're, um, I don't know. I've seen like guys bring books out there cause they're just sitting in their tent for hours.

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_00] Um, like I think you could sit in, in those kinds of conditions, you know, 15 degrees out and be quite comfortable, you know, inside of a tent, just, just wearing this kind of piece. And so I don't know where the like bottom is. Right. Um, cause personally I haven't found the bottom of where I'm like, oh, this piece was not yet warm enough. Um, and, and yeah, I mean, and like I say, we've taken it out on trips where we're getting down to zero degrees Fahrenheit at night in the lows.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_00] And, um, so yeah, I think you can sit stagnant in this piece in some really cold temperatures. Um, and then, you know, there's, there's other factors to consider too. So, okay. Um, as far as colorways, this is, this is a special project. So this mean we're producing about 25% of our normal, like jacket size manufacturing run. That's how many we're making of these is about 25%. So it's not a large quantity. It's not a ton of units.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_00] And we do not know if we will ever produce this again, if it was really successful and we sold a bunch, you know, and we're like, oh, maybe let's do another run of this. They still would not be here for at least 11 months. We'll just say 11 months. Um, so about a year out. So just know that in terms of, of things, but because we're only doing, you know, 25% of a typical PO, we're only doing one color.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_00] And so the colorway here is we've got chimera on the outside with this kind of darker ebony on the inside and, um, chimera for those that can't see this. It's a greenish brownish earthy tone. Yeah. It's a grayish, like different people, I think, see it in different lights. Um, really cool, neutral, you know, natural color tone here. It's a piece that we've, we've done on some different products and, um, we've really liked it. It's been, it's been a popular color.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00] So we decided to go with that for the, the only colorway on this piece. Um, we are going to release this in a small, medium, large, extra large, and a two XL with two sizes having an additional tall option. And that's in the large and the XL. So you can get a, like a large tall or an XL tall. Those are going to be the sizes that we offer this in. Those are all in a men's sizing as well. Um, just making sure we didn't lose anything else.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_00] Kind of just looking down notes here. Um, but I, I think we've, I think we've pretty much got this covered. So this will release on pre-sell originally because of manufacturing timelines and things like that. We are rushing to get this here by the time, you know, people want it for, for the winter season. So we're going to release it on pre-sell. Those that buy it on pre-sell, we'll get things shipped to them first. The pre-sell is only about two weeks.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_00] We do expect to have this by mid-October, um, barring any manufacturing or shipping holdups. Um, and then we'll be turning around and shipping them as quickly as we can, as fast as we can. So realistically, we're hoping that these can get into people's hands. By mid to late October with pre-sell opening up on October 5th. Um, I'm just going to say this, this is not to be like hype or salesy.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_00] Um, we've seen more demand in this than we thought we would originally have, um, on some forums and through, you know, just our own insider connections and ways that we judge interests to know. Um, but all of that has come in very recently. We didn't have that when we placed the initial PO. And because of that, um, we expect these to go kind of quickly. Um, and so if you are interested in this, just know if you miss it, you're not going to have it for this season.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_00] We will not be restocking, um, either ever or for at least a calendar year. So know that ahead of time. If you've stuck to this point in the podcast, you'd probably have some interest in this piece and it's worth noting those things. Um, yeah, last, last and kind of final thoughts here on the piece. Obviously it's really fun to do something more on this, the special categories, um, special projects.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_00] I should say, um, sector, um, it's exciting to build something that's just not, not the norm, something really unique, something that'll stand out. And, and for us, something that is really usable.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_01] It is cool to like actually go forward with something that absolutely meets a need, even though, like we know maybe it doesn't apply to a lot of people, but man, for us and the people listening, raising their hands, it'll, it'll be a great piece. Uh, for me, that's, what's exciting about it. And I've enjoyed.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Okay. Well, if you have any questions on the piece, you can always reach out to support at outervitals.com. Um, you can drop comments on this video or on the podcast itself. Really appreciate it. Um, if you do so, we love making sure that we've got all the information out there for people to, to make good decisions off of. Um, if you know anyone who you think this might be a good fit for, um, feel free to share the podcast, let them know about the podcast. And, um, yeah, we appreciate you. It's been fun.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00] Um, excited to see where this piece takes you guys. I'm excited for, I've got some trips planned where this will 100% be the primary piece in the pack. And I think what I'm most excited for about those is just the confidence, right? Like I have gone into some of these trips that I'm, that I've got planned with a lot less confidence that I will stay warm and comfortable.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_00] Um, this piece is like insurance, you know, it's like, I'm just yet to put this piece on and not be like, like all of my fears being cold just disappeared. You know, and, and so like, as I look at some of these trips I've planned, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is just going to be a different level of comfort, a different level of, of product than we've had in the past. Instead of, you know, layering and layering and layering and still not getting to this warmth category.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_00] I've got now one piece, one layer that just immediately takes me to a different level of, of warmth. And, and I think that kind of breeds that, that confidence going into those, um, no one wants to be, you know, cold and freezing for multiple days on a mountain. Um, and so, yeah, I've got some November trips that I'm, I'm really excited to take this out on this year, especially as we've gotten this to the finish line and, and a production model. Um, so. Okay.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_00] Well, appreciate you guys listening into this again, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast, share this with anyone that you think it has some interest in it and we'll catch you guys on a future episode.